Hi rpm. With such a high ABV, what leads you to say that they appear to be trending toward a more international style, or are you saying that that style is the new-fangled (immediate gratification) style?
Wine list mark-ups can be outrageous, and are usually based on the Suggested Retail Price in the area Beverage Media (a monthly publication in which the distributors list all wines and spirits available at wholesale, with the wholesale and suggested retail prices).
The most consumer friendly wine lists tend to be about SRP + 10% . SRP is usually 1.5X wholesale (discounting various post-off reductions - another topic), so on a $10 wholesale wine on which SRP was $15, the wine list would have a $16.50 wine. Not too common.
Most common are twice retail - so for the $10 wholesale wine, you see $30 on the list - or three times wholesale. (Here that’s the same result, but not always).
Sometimes, you see three times retail, which would make your $10 bottle $45 on the list.
I would guess if you paid $36, it was a $50-60 SRP wine, giving you a $150-180 range for a 3X retail list. Ouch, as you said.
2005 was a splendid year for Napa, and the CT notes for the '05 make it seem like it’s not just a big, one-dimensional bomber - there appears to be a bit more complexity hidden in there, as well as some good acidity to tie it all together. One taster even implies that the acidity is a bit too high. Still, that a 2005 Napa cab is already drinking brilliantly in 2009 points towards that highly accessible style lamented by RPM and loved (semi-secretly, like Camilla Parker Bowles) by richardhod and, on occasion, myself. 
I’ve had a couple Howell Mountain cabs as well (not this one, obviously), and they’re quite fantastic. If I remember correctly, cab is practically all they grow on the mountain. Again, though, glowing CT notes dating back to early 2009 suggest accessibility is king here. I’m also just a little worried about the oak - 75% new is nothing to sneeze at for any wine, and a couple of notes were less than impressed.
I actually really love the label design too, as shallow as that is. Normally, I might jump on this, but I’ve already got a bunch of Napa cabs on the rack and $67 is a pretty steep entry fee for two bottles, even if it is a good deal compared to the winery price and other wines of this ilk. Plus, I’m really trying to stick to my August moratorium, which is as yet still holding fast (despite a couple other good deals floating around out there today). Who knows, though, I may change my mind. A little winery input sure couldn’t hurt.
Exactly I would contrast international or Parker-style with traditional style.
2004 Cornerstone Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon Howell Mountain
$75.00 / Bottle
2005 Cornerstone Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon, Napa Valley
$59/bottle
That’s the price the website is showing. Is that accurate? I don’t know where you guys are seeing $30. If $75/$59 is correct, then this is one great deal!!
$30 (plus shipping) is the price to us here. While winery prices seem to usually be much higher than retail and way higher than wholesale, the community values on CT (for paying members only, so I won’t reveal exact numbers) still suggest this is a very good deal. In the range of 40% less than what others pay on average.
Thanks! Got it earlier from Cheron in the Pub.
This is my style. I love Howell Mtn. fruit. Love big, jimmy, bomb cabs. Really, really tempting but I think my SIWBM needs to stand.
What a neat website - thanks for sharing it. I’ve got it bookmarked.
I am a sucker for any 2005 red wine from California - I haven’t had a bad one yet so it must have been a good year. I’m in for at least 2.
De nada. Actually, I think I was earlier!
In any case, it’s good to have it on both threads, I’m sure you’re not the only person wondering how to get back to Monday.
I would love to go in on this one, it looks like a great wine at a great price - but I’m just too scared of the heat. I got a cooked batch last summer, and its made me gun shy.
Add to that, I just stuck my neck out for 2 of the InZINs. Maybe if I have a good summer shipping experience this time, I’ll be off the summer SIWBM.
thank you… I found another one for the mountain AVAs but fell asleep before adding it: Suite 101 - How-tos, Inspiration and Other Ideas to Try . Mind you, if it’s international style as all the pointers suggest, you will - allegedly - get a lot less of the terroir than you might with a more subtle winemaking style.
Draco, thanks for the info that there are 14… but well, it’s useful anyway.
AVG… I don’t know if I like the International style yet! I hate the boring cheapo bombs to be found yawn in supermarkets everywhere, but I haven’t tried enough of the “better” and balanced “bombs” or international styled to form an opinion. I just know I’m a sucker for fresh fruit and preserves (jam, in English) of those dark fruits I mentioned 
Hmm, $33 a bottle in effect. Well, I can get Kent’s or Buena Vista’s PN for that, or Wellington’s noble wines. But if you want to try a “top quality” of the modern international Napa style, it is from what I can tell, actually a good deal. Even if rpm reminds us that for what it is, that style is generally overpriced. That’s the market, folks! Given the market, if you want this and you rate this highly among others of its style I’m hearing that this is a good deal.
Thank you… anyone remember what they said?! For a quick roundup. glad someone told you about wine.woot.com/monday. It’s about time the monkeys put this on the homepage.
So here’s a question - “International Style” is a new designation to me. I’m familiar with “Old World” and “New World” wines and I actually enjoy both depending on the situation (and the food). Would “International Style” be the same as a “New World” style of wine?
I’ve never bought a designer jean or a Monster cable before. Heck, I still watch non-flat screen TVs! Personally, I think a lot of the folks who chase consumer trends are being tugged to and fro by the marketing.
I had never considered the idea of an AV cable as a Veblen good. But I can see it now. It’s engineered to spec, but the cladding could come in various colors or some extra Au plating might be added with no real functional purpose.
FWIW…
I had a bottle of the 1994 in 2007 and remember it terrifically. Not the fruit bomb that all would classify as the current lean in Napa. That said, maybe some lay down time is in order here…
This winery and bottle was one of the few that Spectator highlighted in their “10 years later” list of the 1994 vintage for how well they were showing, etc. If memory serves, the '94 still had 5 years left (“good” until 2009) according to WS.
Note that I use WS as only 1 source of several. The most important, in my opinion, being you. One knows their own palate the best, and should use the Tanzers and Parkers and Spectators and Enthusiasts of the world the as barometers… not as Gospel.
Speaking of Spectator, I looked up the initial ratings in the November, 2008 issue and the 2004 Cornerstone was listed at $64 and 89 pts. Compare that Corison (which I’m a fan of) which scored 83 on the 2004 regular Cab. Pine Ridge was also mentioned in a previous post and none of their efforts outscored Cornerstone except their 05 Fortis ($135, 91).
Since I’m still online I’ll have a go, but I hope others weigh in too.
New World and International aren’t exactly he same AFAICT. You know old World: good clarets, burgundies, and other appellations made to take advantage of the grapes and terroir of their origin without “regularising” or “McDonalding” the flavour ro appeal to the broadest Parkery Palate.
International is the Fruit Bomb, as well-described around these parts: being over- or highly-extracted, jammy, high-alcohol fruit forward Parker-philic wines. The better ones (people cite Ty Caton here) have enough acidity to balance out the alcohol, to some palates, and allow the wine to keep for maybe 10 years or maybe 15-20 at a push (not 40 or mmore like a top trad Old world claret or similarly-made wines).
Not all wines even in this style are the same, but it gives you an idea. look at the descriptions of the flavours in today’s wine and you’ll see the kind of dark fruit, blackberry, chocolate, caramel, leathery sily spicy wine descriptions which are often associated with it. and they can be lovely, from what I can tell, just less diverse and interesting to drink a lot in the long run, according to the longterm experts!
These descriptions are not always limited to the International kinds of style, but when a lot come together, along with high alc. and (worst) low acid (up towards ph 3.8 or over pH4 you get an idea).
The International style did start in the new world, both in Napa and Australia (damn aussies exporting their “experts” making boring fruit shiraz). This improved some badly-made paysan wines in France, but made a lot of the “middle list” in Europe and related regions much more uniform and boring… and therefore saleable in supermarkets to the Heathen British.
But the best of them, like this one are - I hear from the fans - quite interesting and drinkable, at least in the long term. I’m onthe fence as I haven’t enough experience with “good” modern International style Napa cabs. Others will give you more certain taste preference guides. I recommend taste and see, and remember what you taste (thanks rpm)!
A New World style I believe is more than just the international style, but includes it under the umbrella of more fruit-forward, accessible, earlier-drinking wines. But also it includes new world wines which are just made with grapes you never get in Europe. Like the Petite Sirah. Or Zinfandel. Or Malbecs in Argentina. Some of those will be fruit bombs, and some will not! (aside) Though fruitiness is one of a lovely Zin’s general characteristics, I don’t like the Pedroncelli half as much as Wellington’s because it has higher alcohol. I’ve never had the Howell Mountain Zins which are meant to be good.(/aside)
I’d say “International style” would refer to a winemaking philosophy / style of making wines accessible using certain techniques which reflect less the local terroir and more the ambition to a certain set of standard tastes which will sell well in a Parkery Market.
New World, OTOH, refers to all wines fomt he new world, or influenced by the new world. This means: new grapes; new flavours of wine not made in Europe (here listen to rpm’s response I hope on oldschool CA wines, which are not oldschool EU wines); new weather conditions making wines taste different from elsehwere if made in a terroir-sympathetic style (eg Carneros Pinots; Paso Robles wines; indeed well-made Sonoma/Napa/Russian River wines, Oregon, etc!); South American wines which are not all international style, though there is a lot of cheap supermarkety plonk out there; Aussie wines, and kiwi Sauvignons Blanc; South African wines, with some lovely Chenins Blanc etc etc.
Terminology isn’t exact, but I think this gives a hint of the scope differences in the terms as I understand them. Of course people thrown them around loosely and with different kinds and levels of understanding, so sometimes they can be grossly misleading.
I might suggest that reading rpm’s recent postings in the monday woot thread under wine.woot/monday will enlighten a bit regarding traditional new world styles of old wines. And I hope he replies to your posts as though he likes best old world styles he can tell the difference among various taste / flavour profiles.
This any help? What did I miss out or get wrong, fine wooters?
Great post… advice to remember I’d say! Makes a pile of sense.
That Pine Ridge Fortis 05 was amazing, with those round mouth tannins and red brick taste, but not for $140. I nearly bought some when they were selling it at $60 on the day of the rpm tour (it never went up on cellarthief / winespies AFAIK), as I’d never tasted wnything like it. But even with that discount I can get much more interesting wine for much less than that!
this sounds like a good buy for what it is! Got any more descriptions?
Absatively! There’s lots I don’t know about the regulars here (but I did see that gcdyersb has a Cab Franc blog in his sig).
But I think he was speaking to the buying public, and so was I.
Happy Cabs.