Howdy, artists. We’ve heard feedback from some of you about the Derby guidelines, and thought it would be helpful to widen the conversation and centralize it in a single thread. Thus, this thread shall henceforth be the place where we can identify, discuss, and suggest improvements for the many and varied “guidelines” about Derby entries… at least for a few weeks. To keep the conversation focused, we’re only going to run it for 2 weeks. So if you have something to say, say it here and say it by 8/15/18.
This thread is NOT meant to be the ‘final say’ for ideas about the Derby or its guidelines, and we won’t be able to launch every idea discussed here. Consider this more like a fact-finding phase. After 8/15, we’ll take a few weeks to discuss everything, wrap it all up with a bow, and then put it up on the site for people to review when they have questions, if they’re new to the derby, or if an issue arises.
Also, please avoid posts about the exclusivity of Derby entries, and voting fraud. Those are two very important issues that will be handled separately. Keep this discussion about other improvements and suggestions for the Derby.
Lastly, we love the Derby and we love our artists and we love our customers. Now that we have the ‘feel goods’ out of the way….let the discussion begin!
This isn’t a complete list of Derby guidelines, but it should be plenty to get things rolling:
• Entries must be original, not designs that have been submitted or sold on another site (even if it was on another product).
• Entries must contain all original elements (no clipart or other images that the artist does not own the rights to).
• Entries must include the design and a mock-up of the design on a shirt.
• Entries must be clearly related to the Derby topic or theme.
• Entries cannot contain likenesses of people or public figures. Caricatures and parodies are allowed.
• Entries cannot contain photos.
• Artists must email their art file as soon as their entry is submitted!
What other guidelines/suggestions/‘pirate codes’ do you know of or would you like to see? Ready, go!
Great Thread subject. There have been hundreds of ideas over the years on this subject I am sure. If Narfcake winds up, we may get a dump.
Enforcement of the rules for all entries. If a new designer skirts or ignores the rules (or theme) and does not get rejected, they may get the wrong idea as to the validity of their design. Best to keep it tidy.
I miss the no text rule. There are so many entries that are just some text slapped on a shirt. While many of these may net some good profits, it kinda works against the idea of wanting people to draw… Plus many text based designs are often redux of something else found on the web.
Making derby themes more specific forces designers to come up with more original ideas. While “letters” may net a BUNCH of designs, the letter Q may force more originality.
Things to print on. Posters, Spiral Bound journals, mugs, bandannas, and stickers/ bumper stickers.
Partnering and Extra prizes for derbies. Generating more interest by uping the ante and getting artists to put a little more effort into the derby.
Maybe randomizing the entries on the Derby page for the first 24-48 hours so that all entries get a shot at being seen. I’ve been told by a lot of my friends/family that they usually just skim the first few rows to see the “good” shirts and don’t bother to scroll down. Everyone is expecting that the “good” shirts were already voted on and not considering that they get entered at different times which impacts overall placement and visibility. Some of us (ehem) have to upload from the office to be able to get votes at all because timing is such a huge factor in getting enough votes to be seen.
Have those guidelines listed on the submission page so that it can’t be missed. People don’t always read the threads so they aren’t guaranteed to see the guidelines if they’re new.
Set a limit on submissions. I get that people can have lots of ideas but I think its ideal for them to focus on 1-3 and not 10. Its going to impact quality and cheapens the derby overall making people not want to view/vote.
I agree we need to reinforce the rules through rejections. It hurts but you can’t learn if you don’t get rejected for not following the rules.
I like text based shirts but I think they need to be somewhat creative. I’m more likely to buy/wear text designs than characters personally. If its literally text in a list thats a quality issue. If its incorporated with a design, typographic or creative (to fit with the derby) I think it should remain fair game personally.
We NEED to have watermarks. Maybe it should go out as part of the shirt kit but I feel like we’re going to have to keep fighting thieves if we don’t. No shirt is safe apparently unless you cover part of your design in the COMP with the shirt. If we had a watermark I think that’d help a lot and the voting public won’t be too confused to look beyond it.
Thanks for having a thread on this. I agree with many of the suggestions so far, especially the “no text” rule. I also like CaityJean’s idea of randomizing the entries for the first 48 hours to give everyone a fair shot at getting seen. (Would that also involve hiding the number of votes every entry has for the first 2 days? 'Cause that might be good, too).
Here’s something I’d like to add: What about bans (or even temporary bans) on artists who get caught stealing artwork? Some people who were caught stealing in the past have still gone on to print (sometimes original art, but I’ve seen some stolen art also print from the same few artists who do this). I just really find it unfair that repeat rule violators still get chosen for Editor’s Choice sales while the rest of us do our best to make something original. (Lest anyone get confused, I’m not talking about art that turns out coincidentally similar to other shirts out there, but art that is obviously sourced from someone else and run through enough filters/had a cool background added to make it look unstolen).
I might sound harsh, but I just don’t think it’s okay for thieves to get printed, even if it’s an original design, when they were caught stealing pictures/art in the past. There’s plenty of other artists to choose from who don’t do this. (But I’m all for redemption if someone can prove they’ve cleaned up their act, some artists here might be young or genuinely not know any better–this is really more for those multiple repeat offenders).
I appreciate this thread, I really like some of the things already suggested.
Some good suggestions in both comments above. I suppose I am oblivious, or maybe too new to know the specifics about who has stolen artwork and is still printing at woot. I don’t really expect a direct answer, but I am now very curious.
I don’t know if randomizing the entries is the answer since there a a lot of very marginal entries that would make sorting through stuff difficult, but maybe making all the thumbs the same size rather than the stark distinction between the fog and the rest of the entries would help. I think the new hotness allows stuff to be seen even if entered late as long as there are enough voters.
There was a week back in the day where ALL vote counts were hidden and ranking randomized. There was also a blind derby, where the artists names where removed. They’ve done some interesting things.
That would shake things up although people on fb and other social media would now get the word out about which design was by which artist. Still, might be fun to try.
I want to echo early DQs for rule breakers. It’s frustrating on our side and likely heartbreaking for the artist to have something in the fog rejected a day or two before the derby ends.
So I guess I’d like staff to have a rule that goes, “All submitted derby entries will be reviewed for compliance within 48 hours of submission.” Or something like that.
I’m siding with caityjean on allowing text, as I feel like typography is unto itself a style of art (and selfishly, I do more of it). But there should be some clear rules about what constitutes a text-only design and a typographically designed shirt. If that makes sense.
Ben, I’d add to your initial set, "no photos or traced photos. Some think a posterized photo is original art. And can we clarify it’s really no photos? There are definitely photo shirts in the catalog. Is it OK if you can prove you own the photos? Or really, is it NO PHOTOS (hoping so).
*] Revert back to the requirement of having purchased something here before voting. This shouldn’t be a wide open popularity contest in which folks with a significant following social media can automatically hold an advantage over everyone else, or worse yet, employ tactics that are detrimental to the artists themselves. We’ve been down the road before in which a group decided to stuff the ballot boxes of some artists, which unfairly disqualified them.
*] I would much like to see a return of the default sort to date or better yet, random. Right now, those in the fog always have a viewing advantage. Those who submitted later may never have a chance.
*] It may be years too late for it now, but other shirt sites built up their sales and following with “share it to win”. Shirt.woot’s audience has mostly a subset of Woot’s audience itself, which is why things are what they are nowadays. An “advertising budget” of one shirt is pretty low IMHO.
*] People like deals. Is it possible to do an ongoing for like 20% off $40+ (which is 3+ shirts)? I think folks would be more apt to buy a lot more at once in such a case.
*] +1,000,000% on adding watermarks across the design. It won’t eliminate design thieves, but it certainly slows them down. They currently DGAF because they can easily just swipe and upload.
Rules:
*] Always be mindful of copyrights and trademarks. Design influenced by intellectual property are subjected to rejection if they are deemed too close to the original material.
*] Artists cannot solicit via “free shirts if I place” or worse, with $$. I feel it’s fair game to say “follow me for a chance to win”, but it cannot be contingent to them voting for the design.
*] Calvin and Hobbes references will always be off limits. Always.
ETA: I wonder if paradox of choice is making for fewer sales. Sometimes I feel that there are too many ECs …
I’d like to see a perma-ban on politics… We are all different and I thought we were all to celebrate diversity. This site was once pretty apolitical. A few snarky shirts sold well; but should that mean that this should becaome another hateful haven? I think that should be saved for facebook and twitter, not woot. I don’t know if, at this stage, woot wants to actively engage in things that will encourage more to leave… Just my two cents.
Great Thread subject. There have been hundreds of ideas over the years on this subject I am sure. If Narfcake winds up, we may get a dump.
Enforcement of the rules for all entries. If a new designer skirts or ignores the rules (or theme) and does not get rejected, they may get the wrong idea as to the validity of their design. Best to keep it tidy.
I miss the no text rule. There are so many entries that are just some text slapped on a shirt. While many of these may net some good profits, it kinda works against the idea of wanting people to draw… Plus many text based designs are often redux of something else found on the web.
Making derby themes more specific forces designers to come up with more original ideas. While “letters” may net a BUNCH of designs, the letter Q may force more originality.
Things to print on. Posters, Spiral Bound journals, mugs, bandannas, and stickers/ bumper stickers.
Partnering and Extra prizes for derbies. Generating more interest by uping the ante and getting artists to put a little more effort into the derby.
Maybe randomizing the entries on the Derby page for the first 24-48 hours so that all entries get a shot at being seen. I’ve been told by a lot of my friends/family that they usually just skim the first few rows to see the “good” shirts and don’t bother to scroll down. Everyone is expecting that the “good” shirts were already voted on and not considering that they get entered at different times which impacts overall placement and visibility. Some of us (ehem) have to upload from the office to be able to get votes at all because timing is such a huge factor in getting enough votes to be seen.
Have those guidelines listed on the submission page so that it can’t be missed. People don’t always read the threads so they aren’t guaranteed to see the guidelines if they’re new.
Set a limit on submissions. I get that people can have lots of ideas but I think its ideal for them to focus on 1-3 and not 10. Its going to impact quality and cheapens the derby overall making people not want to view/vote.
I agree we need to reinforce the rules through rejections. It hurts but you can’t learn if you don’t get rejected for not following the rules.
I like text based shirts but I think they need to be somewhat creative. I’m more likely to buy/wear text designs than characters personally. If its literally text in a list thats a quality issue. If its incorporated with a design, typographic or creative (to fit with the derby) I think it should remain fair game personally.
We NEED to have watermarks. Maybe it should go out as part of the shirt kit but I feel like we’re going to have to keep fighting thieves if we don’t. No shirt is safe apparently unless you cover part of your design in the COMP with the shirt. If we had a watermark I think that’d help a lot and the voting public won’t be too confused to look beyond it.
Thanks for having a thread on this. I agree with many of the suggestions so far, especially the “no text” rule. I also like CaityJean’s idea of randomizing the entries for the first 48 hours to give everyone a fair shot at getting seen. (Would that also involve hiding the number of votes every entry has for the first 2 days? 'Cause that might be good, too).
Here’s something I’d like to add: What about bans (or even temporary bans) on artists who get caught stealing artwork? Some people who were caught stealing in the past have still gone on to print (sometimes original art, but I’ve seen some stolen art also print from the same few artists who do this). I just really find it unfair that repeat rule violators still get chosen for Editor’s Choice sales while the rest of us do our best to make something original. (Lest anyone get confused, I’m not talking about art that turns out coincidentally similar to other shirts out there, but art that is obviously sourced from someone else and run through enough filters/had a cool background added to make it look unstolen).
I might sound harsh, but I just don’t think it’s okay for thieves to get printed, even if it’s an original design, when they were caught stealing pictures/art in the past. There’s plenty of other artists to choose from who don’t do this. (But I’m all for redemption if someone can prove they’ve cleaned up their act, some artists here might be young or genuinely not know any better–this is really more for those multiple repeat offenders).
I appreciate this thread, I really like some of the things already suggested.
Some good suggestions in both comments above. I suppose I am oblivious, or maybe too new to know the specifics about who has stolen artwork and is still printing at woot. I don’t really expect a direct answer, but I am now very curious.
I don’t know if randomizing the entries is the answer since there a a lot of very marginal entries that would make sorting through stuff difficult, but maybe making all the thumbs the same size rather than the stark distinction between the fog and the rest of the entries would help. I think the new hotness allows stuff to be seen even if entered late as long as there are enough voters.
There was a week back in the day where ALL vote counts were hidden and ranking randomized. There was also a blind derby, where the artists names where removed. They’ve done some interesting things.
That would shake things up although people on fb and other social media would now get the word out about which design was by which artist. Still, might be fun to try.
I want to echo early DQs for rule breakers. It’s frustrating on our side and likely heartbreaking for the artist to have something in the fog rejected a day or two before the derby ends.
So I guess I’d like staff to have a rule that goes, “All submitted derby entries will be reviewed for compliance within 48 hours of submission.” Or something like that.
I’m siding with caityjean on allowing text, as I feel like typography is unto itself a style of art (and selfishly, I do more of it). But there should be some clear rules about what constitutes a text-only design and a typographically designed shirt. If that makes sense.
Ben, I’d add to your initial set, "no photos or traced photos. Some think a posterized photo is original art. And can we clarify it’s really no photos? There are definitely photo shirts in the catalog. Is it OK if you can prove you own the photos? Or really, is it NO PHOTOS (hoping so).
[*] Revert back to the requirement of having purchased something here before voting. This shouldn’t be a wide open popularity contest in which folks with a significant following social media can automatically hold an advantage over everyone else, or worse yet, employ tactics that are detrimental to the artists themselves. We’ve been down the road before in which a group decided to stuff the ballot boxes of some artists, which unfairly disqualified them.
[*] I would much like to see a return of the default sort to date or better yet, random. Right now, those in the fog always have a viewing advantage. Those who submitted later may never have a chance.
[*] It may be years too late for it now, but other shirt sites built up their sales and following with “share it to win”. Shirt.woot’s audience has mostly a subset of Woot’s audience itself, which is why things are what they are nowadays. An “advertising budget” of one shirt is pretty low IMHO.
[*] People like deals. Is it possible to do an ongoing for like 20% off $40+ (which is 3+ shirts)? I think folks would be more apt to buy a lot more at once in such a case.
[*] +1,000,000% on adding watermarks across the design. It won’t eliminate design thieves, but it certainly slows them down. They currently DGAF because they can easily just swipe and upload.
Rules:
[] Always be mindful of copyrights and trademarks. Design influenced by intellectual property are subjected to rejection if they are deemed too close to the original material.
[] Artists cannot solicit via “free shirts if I place” or worse, with $$. I feel it’s fair game to say “follow me for a chance to win”, but it cannot be contingent to them voting for the design.
[*] Calvin and Hobbes references will always be off limits. Always.
ETA: I wonder if paradox of choice is making for fewer sales. Sometimes I feel that there are too many ECs …
An “advertising budget” of one shirt is pretty low IMHO.