Since these are refurbs, wouldn’t they already be burned-in, if the previous user used them for more than 50 hours?
I know some of what goes I to refurbishing other products, but have no idea with these. Anyone have any idea?
[QUOTE=whersh, post:5, topic:382575]
I recently bought a new pair of, what i like to consider, nice headphones. After about a month of searching around, this pair was on my short list. I decided to go with the Sony MDR-7506’s instead.
If the noise cancelling would have been higher on my list of needs, I would have bought these instead.
[/quote]
that’s exactly what I did. They aren’t noise cancelling, but have you tried them on a flight yet? I am wondering if I should pick a pair of these up for a trip I have to take.
I ordered these the last time they were here, but they ran out of stock before they could ship mine, and had to cancel. I was bummed, but ended up spending more and getting the Bose QC15s. I regret nothing!
As in my signature below, refurb doesn’t always mean used:
http://www.woot.com/forums/viewpost.aspx?postid=108834&pageindex=1&replycount=13#post109477
[QUOTE=Titan415, post:19, topic:382575]
Some speakers are affected by the burn-in or break-in period than others, but I just reviewed a pair of speakers whose character completely changed in the span of less than three hours.
-Doug
[/quote]
I love the audiophile idea that high-end speakers can change character drastically after a few hours of use, but nobody at the manufacturer ever thought of doing the burn in there.
Point me to any A/B/X double-blind study, or quantitative before-and-after measurements proving a difference between hour 1 and hour 100 on properly-designed speakers, and we can talk.
[QUOTE=Sardinicus, post:25, topic:382575]
I love the audiophile idea that high-end speakers can change character drastically after a few hours of use, but nobody at the manufacturer ever thought of doing the burn in there.
Point me to any A/B/X double-blind study, or quantitative before-and-after measurements proving a difference between hour 1 and hour 100 on properly-designed speakers, and we can talk.
[/quote]
And the conversations stops throughout the room when the young boy says: But the king has no cloths!
Cables, power cords, etc. you’re probably on point - but regardless of how much you think there is no speaker break-in, you are wrong. Here’s just one detailed post with some actual data, there’s many measurable variables that change during speaker break-in.
"PA, studio Monitors, and Hi-Fi Home speakers all do break in. On Page 155 of Vance Dickason’s ‘Loud Speaker Design Cookbook (Sixth Edition)’ it talks about this. Please note the 7th edition is out. Loudspeaker Design Cookbook - 7th Edition
Mr. Dickason says this at the start: “Prior to testing , all cone speakers should be broken in.” Basically you don’t want a speaker changing as you are validating the design, so manufacturers will test the speakers broken in to make sure their box design is good (Talking about PA and HiFi speakers here). He describes a ‘loosening’ of the speaker suspension system in the first five to ten hours of play. Here is the data from a peerless 6.5inch driver new and after 12 hours of break in with a since wave generator at 25Hz. All this info is out of Mr. Dickason’s book referenced above.
Table 8.1
Before break in
F0: 49.9Hz
Qms: 2.11
Qes: 0.44
Qts: 0.37
Vas: 16.8 ltr
After break in
F0: 44.5Hz
Qms: 1.97
Qes: 0.39
Qts: 0.33
Vas: 21.6 ltr
They have a really nice graph in the book showing the frequency response difference. F0 is the peak low frequency, notice how it has shifted slightly lower, this is the more bass people may or may not be hearing.
Qms is the driver mechanical Q
Qes is the driver electrical Q
Qts is the drier total Q
Vas is the volume of air equal to the driver compliance
Mr. Dickason’s book is a standard in the speaker designing industry. He does not manufacture speakers, so he has nothing to gain by ‘inventing’ speaker break in.
I have heard speaker break in myself both with guitar speakers and home stereo speakers. Its nice to see some of the science behind it in Vance Dickason’s book."
http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=85185&p=1000459
Some manufactures do take the time to break in speakers, but it is costly to do so. For mass produced speakers it makes no sense to spend the money on a process that will happen naturally as the speakers are used.
The A/B/X test would only indicate how audible these very real physical changes are. You can probably use Google to point yourself in the direction of more actual measurements - it’s definitely out there.
Do audiophiles overstate the effects of speaker break-in, sure - is speaker break-in a myth, nope.
[QUOTE=Sardinicus, post:25, topic:382575]
I love the audiophile idea that high-end speakers can change character drastically after a few hours of use, but nobody at the manufacturer ever thought of doing the burn in there.
Point me to any A/B/X double-blind study, or quantitative before-and-after measurements proving a difference between hour 1 and hour 100 on properly-designed speakers, and we can talk.
[/quote]
While I agree, I would love to see either a double-blind with a new pair and a “burnt-in” pair, or an audio spectrum analysis of said pairs, for proof; I don’t think that we can discount the possibility based on the idea that if it existed, manufacturers would conduct burn-ins. Imagine the extra expense required to burn-in the speakers for 100 or even 40 hours. I could see only the highest of the highest end manufacturers doing this. But even if one did, with all these audiophiles believing in burn-in, it could just be to capture the premium that micro-market would be willing to pay, and no more proof would be had.
I am purchasing a pair of these for my wife (she hates hearing my music while listening to her herbalism lessons, and I don’t like to always wear headphones), and I will run an audio spectrum analysis on a piece of music for the first usage, and then another after ~20 hour increments until 100 hours or until I have a few that are very close compared to previous differences (whichever is first). It will be an amateur study (I’m a software developer, not an audio engineer – although I used to develop real-time audio processing and editing sw for SGIs back in the day). I will then post my results as a reply to this message. I gotta believe there are plenty of other postings of results of similar tests out there with other equipment, but not likely with these headphones, which only were manufactured in short run before being discontinued.
I wanted to order with two-day shipping so it would arrive at my son’s dorm Wednesday for his birthday. The order page priced the shipping at $5 standard, $9 two-day and $12 for one-day, but when I select the 2-day option and press “place your order”, it switches back to standard shipping and prevents me from selecting the others. Is woot just teasing me with the express shipping options? A deal breaker unless I can get them to Murray, KY by Wednesday?
Eh? Just because they were $350.00 when introduced doesn’t make this a great “deal”. There is a reason why they are costing what they are. The reviews I read complain about them becoming uncomfortable after 20 minutes, the noise cancelling isn’t that great and it features things like cheap paint that chip off, plastic where you would expect to find something stronger and because they are so wide don’t be surprised if you hit the most unlikely things while wearing them like the storage compartment above you in the plane. The speakers themselves are not inset within the cup so essentially they press against your ear which can for some (like me) get very uncomfortable quickly.
For those of you where these work it is probably about as inexpensive as you can get until Klipsch intros the next generation, which perhaps they already have.
Can anyone comment on how these compare to the Audio-Technica ATH-ANC9?
Way back when I purchased two pair of the Jabra C820s to use for all kinds of different a/v remote recordings.
I purchased 2 pair and off the bat sold a pair to a friend, and which I’m sorry I did. For the $60 price, this has been one of the finest headsets I’ve ever used and I’ve used a lot. The noise canceling continues to impress me and the headsets have shown no sign of wear after years of hard use.
Just thought I’d share this as I think the M40’s are a bit pricy compared to what’s out there.
When you place the order, our system checks with the Fulfillment by Amazon (FBA) warehouse nearest you to see if the expedited shipping deadline can be met. If not, expedited shipping is denied.
Sorry. I’m sure the weekend and holiday have something to do with that. And at 11:30am, you probably just missed the deadline for today.
[QUOTE=ThunderThighs, post:33, topic:382575]
When you place the order, our system checks with the Fulfillment by Amazon (FBA) warehouse nearest you to see if the expedited shipping deadline can be met. If not, expedited shipping is denied.
Sorry. I’m sure the weekend and holiday have something to do with that. And at 11:30am, you probably just missed the deadline for today.
[/quote]
I went ahead and ordered (#44270300). If there is any way to upgrade (and charge me) for one-day, even if that only gets them there within two-days, that would be fine with me. Otherwise I will just hope for the best and let him know they are “in the mail” on Wednesday. Thanks!
[QUOTE=bunnyma357, post:27, topic:382575]
"PA, studio Monitors, and Hi-Fi Home speakers all do break in. On Page 155 of Vance Dickason’s ‘Loud Speaker Design Cookbook (Sixth Edition)’ it talks about this. Please note the 7th edition is out. Loudspeaker Design Cookbook - 7th Edition
Mr. Dickason says this at the start: “Prior to testing , all cone speakers should be broken in.”
(. . . good stuff skipped)
The A/B/X test would only indicate how audible these very real physical changes are. You can probably use Google to point yourself in the direction of more actual measurements - it’s definitely out there.
Do audiophiles overstate the effects of speaker break-in, sure - is speaker break-in a myth, nope.
[/quote]
Now we’re having a useful discussion. A few points -
-
Nothing here about headphones. Yes, I know headphones have drivers in them but the geometries, mechanisms, and materials are vastly different.
-
It’s tough to extrapolate advice for the homebuilder to retail speakers; I think you may underestimate the likelihood that any required run-in is already done at the driver level and/or speaker level before reaching the customer. Again, it’s one of those things where audiophile consensus is that breaking in seems to be “important” on expensive speakers – the exact ones you’d expect the spare-no-expense approach to be taken.
-
I’ve looked for the type of A/B/X measurements I requested earlier since the first time I had this discussion on the internet circa 1995. The scientific discussion there landed on the conclusion that “break in occurs between the ears” – that is, it’s a real effect but it’s much more psychoacoustic than physical in nature. Human nature says you use what you are used to as reference, so more time to adjust to a new sound makes it sound “better” or more “natural”. (The more cynical folks point out that is a useful tool for sellers to mitigate buyer’s remorse – if you don’t like it now, burn it in for a week and it’ll sound MUCH better – only an idjit with tin ears couldn’t hear the improvement.)
-
As you point out, if there is some wheat in the burn-in stack, it’s often lost among the chaff discussion of solid state and passive components “forming” or “settling in” or other such nonsense.
Anyway, these headphones look good for the price. Buy them, burn them in or don’t. They’ll still sound fine!
[QUOTE=Kapil, post:8, topic:382575]
Klipsch apparently discontinued this product which was shortly after the product had been introduced. That didn’t sit well with me.
[/quote]
They don’t seem to be discontinued. Amazon and Klipsch both still sell them, and Klipsch’s site says nothing about them being discontinued.
$150 for refurbished headphones?
Heck no.
But then I don’t like refurbished products, because I ask: “Was the design so flawed that the product failed in large numbers? Not to mention, who’s to say they’ve fixed the design flaw?” It’s a safe bet they didn’t; they just put in a new part, gave the product a spit shine, and threw it into a new box. Changing out a part doesn’t fix the issues with the design, and it will likely break again.
On top of that, they only offer a 90 day warranty? C’mon. If a company is selling a refurbished product, they should stand behind it with a 1 year warranty at minimum.
Woot, please please please bring back the InCase line of headphones. Those are awesome and selling for $80 direct from the Manufacturer:
http://goincase.com/products/detail/sonic-ec30027
(Woot’s sold them a couple times for about $55). They’re very comfortable, offer incredible sound, and aren’t outrageously overpriced.
So I’m guessing the iThingy compatible microphone feature means it won’t actually work as a microphone (for video conferences) on a PC since there is no dedicated mic input plug, and it wouldn’t work on any of my several Android devices as a headset/microphone like it does on Apple products?
I really like my Klipsch ear-buds, and a coworker of mine recently bought a different set of headphones (pretty sure they are these: Reference ONE On-Ear Stereo Headphones | Klipsch) and they’re nice, but 1) they feel bulky to me, 2) I’ve got a ginormous head (evidently), so these would pinch my skull like a fat tick. Ow. I’m a sucker for copper metallic (the color of my motorcycle, actually)… but I have found that the noise of all the voices and non-white-noise in my office is completely immune to “noise cancelling” like on the Bose headphones. I either have to wear earbuds to physically isolate my ear canals, or just crank the over-the-ear open design headphones I usually wear.
Tiny headed minions on planes would LOVE these, I’m sure. 
Sorry, the king was off having a life.
Look, I don’t have any interest in converting anyone. I’ve spent over 20 years in the CE business. I know what I know from decades of actual, real-world experience. If you choose to live your lives behind cynicism and rudeness, have at it. Enjoy that.
-Doug
A long time ago I bought Sony MDR-NC20 headphones. I liked the dynamic range and the virtual elimination of white noise. I’d wear them when flying just to cut out the hum on the plane. Without any music, it sounded like an office environment as passengers talked.
Then I bought a pair of Sennheiser PXC 250, which is on the ear (the Sony is over the ear). They fit well and cancel as much noise as the Sony unit.
One thing to point out is the impedance of your headphones. If it is very high you have to turn up the volume on your device to compensate for the greater resistance (impedance). I always check the impedance and frequency range before buying any headphones.