Re: Woot self-destructs, film at eleven


#1

I could not disagree more.
Having hidden discount codes and other “secrets” is a long tradition of the intenet.

This code itself was billed as a special “reward” for only the people who learned about it:

[quote user=“WootBot”]
[size=18]Thanks for joining us in the product discussion forum today - your reward for coming to the forum is a $25 coupon for tonight’s item. Be sure to enter the code “coffeebreak” when you purchase. This coupon is valid for Woot members only (both new and old Woot members).[/size]
[/quote] I don’t believe it ever explicitly said anything remotely like “this is for tonight only.” although that was always my own interpretation.

IF it still worked, and IF anyone at all was able to use it to get a confirmation screen (or email) showing it as having been accepted, then that confirmation denoted a commitment entered into by Woot. They can say “we made a mistake” and cancel the transaction, or offer the customer options. Just charging more money is inexcusable.

(and yeah, actually - I am available for consultation on matters of ethics)


#2

[quote user=“obob”] I don’t believe it ever explicitly said anything remotely like “this is for tonight only.” although that was always my own interpretation.

IF it still worked, and IF anyone at all was able to use it to get a confirmation screen (or email) showing it as having been accepted, then that confirmation denoted a commitment entered into by Woot. They can say “we made a mistake” and cancel the transaction, or offer the customer options. Just charging more money is inexcusable.

(and yeah, actually - I am a vailable for consultation on matters of ethics)

[/quote]

You’re entitled to your opinion. We will just agree to disagree.


#3

I’m with obob. Oh, and just to be honest, I was going to try the coupon code the following night, but it ended up being an item I didn’t neeed even at the reduced price. Afterall, as obob stated, the coupon never said it was only for the coffee machine.


#4

[quote user=“obob”] I don’t believe it ever explicitly said anything remotely like “this is for tonight only.” although that was always my own interpretation.

IF it still worked, and IF anyone at all was able to use it to get a confirmation screen (or email) showing it as having been accepted, then that confirmation denoted a commitment entered into by Woot. They can say “we made a mistake” and cancel the transaction, or offer the customer options. Just charging more money is inexcusable.
[/quote]
Common sense tells me that a code “coffee break” would be good for a coffee maker, but not a DVD burner. And the obvious text above stating that it was for that item only could not have been missed. That said, I used it anyway and didnt get away with it. I hit woot up for a call tag and they refunded me. It would have been better had they not run the orders but the explanation I got was that they cancelled the coupon in the wee hours of saturday morning and the orders ran when it sold out. So I dont see any fraud, malicious intent, dereliction of duty, etc, etc, etc…Now if they were telling me “tough luck” and refusing to refund my money then it would be a different story but thats not whats going on.

And from a legal standpoint - the offer and acceptance is this - the user offers to buy the product. When the product is shipped, that is the acceptance by woot of the offer from the user. The commitment is made upon shipping, not upon the offer from the customer nor upon the confirmation page. The confirmation is not a guarantee to accept the order or to ship it, it is merely a notice that your order has been received. Ask a lawyer, they will confirm this as it is contracts 101.

And not to pick obob - but you seem to be really unhappy here - and by here - I mean at woot. You complain non-stop about spam even after woot seems to have cleaned up the forums. Your annoying sig line talks about how dis-satisfied you are even after woot cleaned up the forums. And now after complaining in the product thread, you’ve come over here and started a new place to complain. You’re like petey but instead of spam, you offer bitchiness.


#5

[quote user=“obob”]Sorry, no. Just agreeing to one price and then charging a higher one is, in my opinion, fraudulent. Regardless of any and all surrounding circumstances.

Anyone who got stuck with any sort of overdraft charge for the unannounced and unauthorized overcharge is, in my opinion, bound to win a slam-dunk investigation of any kind at any level, from the BBB to the supreme court.[/quote]Well, it’s obvious you are not a lawyer. Fraud requires intent, you can’t prove intent here. And your opinion does not change legal standing. BBB wont mess with it and no court system will look at it either. You should give it a rest, you are emarassing yourself. Really, if you are so turned off, you should just leave.


#6

I’m looking at it like a coupon that has expired. The code was posted in the coffee maker forum, and it should be clear to anyone reading the explanation for the code that they shouldn’t have made assumptions that it would be good past the one item per day Woot item. Going back to an expired coupon thought. Would you sue your local grocer because the store didn’t honor your coupon that expired at midnight on Sept. 16, 2005 and you tried to use it a day, or two, or week later? Of course you wouldn’t sue, because you know you were in the wrong. Well, the same principal applies here. The coupon was good for one day, one item only. Anyone who tried to steal (that’s right, STEAL) a discount by fradulently using an expired code and then gets mad about it, deserves what they get. To me this is a non-issue. Someone(s) tried to steal a discount, got busted, and now is upset. Don’t get confused about who the guilty party is here, it’s not Woot, it’s the person trying to steal money from Woots pocket.


#7

Your example’s not really matching up. To match up, the coupon would not have an expiration date, the retailer would take the coupon, then later add the amount of the coupon back to the order, and charge a higher amount.


#8

[quote user=“Binaural”]

Your example’s not really matching up. To match up, the coupon would not have an expiration date, the retailer would take the coupon, then later add the amount of the coupon back to the order, and charge a higher amount. [/quote]

O.K. but there is an expiration date on the “coffeebreak” code.

Posted at 12:00 a.m. Sept. 16, 2005 the explanation for the code is stated as:

Thanks for joining us in the product discussion forum today - your reward for coming to the forum is a $25 coupon for tonight’s item. Be sure to enter the code “coffeebreak” when you purchase.

Sounds like they put a time limit on the code.

Or am I just being dense (probably) and not understanding what the problem is.


#9

[quote user=“czardastx”]

O.K. but there is an expiration date on the “coffeebreak” code.

Posted at 12:00 a.m. Sept. 16, 2005 the explanation for the code is stated as:

Thanks for joining us in the product discussion forum today - your reward for coming to the forum is a $25 coupon for tonight’s item. Be sure to enter the code “coffeebreak” when you purchase.

Sounds like they put a time limit on the code.

Or am I just being dense (probably) and not understanding what the problem is.[/quote]

It’s gone now, but in big bold letters on the woot’s forum page (click community, then woots) was a text saying “thanks for visiting the forums, blah, blah, blah, use this coupon on tonight’s woot”. If you were just visiting that night, having not visited the night before, it would not be obvious that the code were only for the coffee maker. Now, you have to go into the coffee maker forum to see it, but before, you didn’t, it was on the page under the title.

(Should be obvious, but the above is not a direct quote [;)])


#10

[quote user=“Binaural”]

It’s gone now, but in big bold letters on the woot’s forum page (click community, then woots) was a text saying “thanks for visiting the forums, blah, blah, blah, use this coupon on tonight’s woot”. If you were just visiting that night, having not visited the night before, it would not be obvious that the code were only for the coffee maker. Now, you have to go into the coffee maker forum to see it, but before, you didn’t, it was on the page under the title.

(Should be obvious, but the above is not a direct quote [;)])[/quote]

Got it. Didn’t know that it was on the main Woots forum page. If that was the case then it was a stupid thing to let slip by on Woot’s part. I’m still of the thought of the expired coupon (I should be, it’s my thought). But, in the matter of good business, if that is really the case of the code confusion, then Woot should suck it up and honor the codes that were entered while that information was still on the Woots forum main page. Anyone trying to scam a discount after Woot corrected the page shouldn’t expect to get the discount, if that was even a possibility.


#11

[quote user=“Riuski”]Ok, as one of the members who has only heard about Woot but never visited until the night of the HP DVDRW Drive, I did see in big letters something about a coupon as a thanks for coming to the forum. I did the deal BEFORE it was posted on Fatwallet or anywhere else, thinking that it was a legitimate deal. For all I knew, coffeebreak referred to having to stay up late for Woot’s new item every night or something. I didn’t bother to check my credit card charge until tonight, 2 weeks later, and found to my surprise a charge $25 more than I expected. I haven’t heard anything official from Woot (since i haven’t called yet), but if they decide to take a hard-line stance on this matter, I WILL be looking to report this to the BBB, the California Attorney General’s Office, and anywhere else where I can get this matter resolved. I didn’t print out the screen confirmation from that night, but I do have an email from Woot stating how much the DVD writer charge should be. I firmly believe the law would be on my side in this case. Oh, I would just return it if Woot would just send UPS over to pick it up, but 1)I doubt they would, 2)I’ve already opened the box, and 3)seeing the response from the Fatwallet community, I think I’d rather just cause a lot of trouble for Woot. As a final note, I probably will never buy anything from here ever again.

Here’s what it said in my email:

Dear Riuski,

Thank you for your purchase.

Your order number XXXXXXX for 1 HP External Dual Layer 16x DVD+/-R/RW Writer has been received by Woot on 9/17/2005 and your credit card has been charged $39.99.
Your order will typically ship within 3 business days. To check your order status, go to the Your Account tab at www.woot.com, log in and check your order history.

Please review the information above and report any discrepancy immediately to service@woot.com. Make sure your user name and order number are included in all correspondence related to this order.[/quote]
I’m afraid you have a very valid complaint, but I urge you to wait and see if we can get an official response from woot here. They are really good guys, and I’m sure they’ll be understanding.


#12

[quote user=“RevJOnathan”]
I’m afraid you have a very valid complaint, but I urge you to wait and see if we can get an official response from woot here. They are really good guys, and I’m sure they’ll be understanding.[/quote]

Well, I just thought of another thing. Although I received my drive about a week ago, I never thought to check my credit card charges because some many people in various forums (Fatwallet being one of those I frequent) have raved about them. Had they included an invoice or packing slip, sent me an email, or otherwise tried to let me know in one way or another that the coupon had been invalidated, I would have known about this matter sooner. If i was one of those people who didn’t check their credit card charges online, I would have had to wait another week or two to find out that this purchase had become a problem. Where is the ethics in that? I am awaiting eagerly for a satisfactory response from the Woot staff as we speak.


#13

[quote user=“dreamaster”]And finally - I think woot should of just cancelled the orders instead of resetting the charge.[/quote]Agreed - that’s what should have been done. It was our first attempt with a coupon and I dare say the last one as well. It was supposed to expire at 11:59 but didn’t and when the coupon was cancelled at about 4am, all the orders that had used the coupon (about 20 out of 500+ orders) were supposed to be cancelled as well. Instead they ended up in the automated order process and were sent to the warehouse . If you’re one of the twenty or so that used the coupon, refuse your shipment or email rma@woot.com and we’ll issue a call tag and refund your money.


#14

Great. Thanks obob and Rev. Here’s the result of your Don Quixote attack on woot. No more coupons.

Please feel free to GFO.


#15

[quote user=“dreamaster”]

Great. Thanks obob and Rev. Here’s the result of your Don Quixote attack on woot. No more coupons.

Please feel free to GFO.[/quote]
What someone makes an honest mistake online because of woot’s screw-up and it got fixed? Yeah, I don’t know how I’ll sleep tonight with that horrible deed hanging over my head.

I love woot and the guys here are great. I appreciate BigD coming out and explaining things. Woot always does, that’s why I said people should wait. See, now people can get themselves a refund. Its not entirely within the usual dealings of the law, but it is a very fair compromise. This way trouble will be avoided.

I love the woot staff because they will come out and explain things, most businesses don’t. These are genuinely good people and we can expect to hear from them when something goes wrong.

Layoff Dreamaster, the problem was resolved, and woot can get the coupon thing working if they try. I don’t care, everyday is like a coupon here.


#16

[quote user=“RevJOnathan”]
What someone makes an honest mistake online because of woot’s screw-up and it got fixed? Yeah, I don’t know how I’ll sleep tonight with that horrible deed hanging over my head.

I love woot and the guys here are great. I appreciate BigD coming out and explaining things. Woot always does, that’s why I said people should wait. See, now people can get themselves a refund. Its not entirely within the usual dealings of the law, but it is a very fair compromise. This way trouble will be avoided.

I love the woot staff because they will come out and explain things, most businesses don’t. These are genuinely good people and we can expect to hear from them when something goes wrong.

Layoff Dreamaster, the problem was resolved, and woot can get the coupon thing working if they try. I don’t care, everyday is like a coupon here.[/quote]

If you check the thread in the daily woot area - I did blame the folks on fatwallet that gave the code out, and not the ones that used it and got hurt by it.

Obob bringing this thread up was wrong, and honestly, BigD didn’t need to answer it. I lumped you in because you defended Obob here.

Mea Culpa.


#17

[quote user=“lordelix”]Another reason I love Woot! They really do respond when the need arises. All the same, I will say that everyone is free to express their anger, outrage, frustration, and all other manor of feelings. However this is a situation that should have been handled with emails and personal messages. I’m not a big fan of flame wars or trolling, and these types of theads are a breeding ground for them. So lets all have a drink , or several. Situation resolved.
I humbly request that this thread be locked. [/quote]
Excellent idea! I’d love to see this thing close. All that could possibly be left is Dreamaster looking like an idiot, and no one wants to see that.

Problem solved. Let’s close it!


#18

You’re entitled to your opinion. We will just agree to disagree.


#19

I’m with obob. Oh, and just to be honest, I was going to try the coupon code the following night, but it ended up being an item I didn’t neeed even at the reduced price. Afterall, as obob stated, the coupon never said it was only for the coffee machine.


#20

Common sense tells me that a code “coffee break” would be good for a coffee maker, but not a DVD burner. And the obvious text above stating that it was for that item only could not have been missed. That said, I used it anyway and didnt get away with it. I hit woot up for a call tag and they refunded me. It would have been better had they not run the orders but the explanation I got was that they cancelled the coupon in the wee hours of saturday morning and the orders ran when it sold out. So I dont see any fraud, malicious intent, dereliction of duty, etc, etc, etc…Now if they were telling me “tough luck” and refusing to refund my money then it would be a different story but thats not whats going on.

And from a legal standpoint - the offer and acceptance is this - the user offers to buy the product. When the product is shipped, that is the acceptance by woot of the offer from the user. The commitment is made upon shipping, not upon the offer from the customer nor upon the confirmation page. The confirmation is not a guarantee to accept the order or to ship it, it is merely a notice that your order has been received. Ask a lawyer, they will confirm this as it is contracts 101.

And not to pick obob - but you seem to be really unhappy here - and by here - I mean at woot. You complain non-stop about spam even after woot seems to have cleaned up the forums. Your annoying sig line talks about how dis-satisfied you are even after woot cleaned up the forums. And now after complaining in the product thread, you’ve come over here and started a new place to complain. You’re like petey but instead of spam, you offer bitchiness.